There’s very little that we are not capable of doing.
Transcript:
This podcast was transcribed through a third-party application. Please disregard any misrepresentations.
Brad Caruso:
Welcome to Civic Warriors, brought to you by Withum. On this podcast, we bring the conversation to you, sharing, engaging stories that motivate and build consensus in the nonprofit community. This podcast is about the innovators, the leaders on the front lines of adversity, guiding lights in the nonprofit industry affecting change. And through their stories, we can all join forces to become civic warriors. Hey, warriors. Welcome to today’s episode of Civic Warriors. Brought to you by Withum, I’m your host, Brad Caruso, leader of Withum’s not-for-profit practice. Today’s guest is Donald Overton, National Executive Director of Blinded Veterans Association, a 501c3 tax exempt nonprofit organization. BVA serves as ambassadors and mentors for all veterans and their families, coping with sight loss. BVA continually strives to better the lives of all who served in the armed forces, living with sight loss through expert advocacy, engaged membership, clear communication, and peer inspired self-reliance. Our BVA family epitomizes respect, honor, dedication, and commitment to sustain a thriving, informed, patriotic and connected community. So, certainly an organization that, uh, helps many, uh, helps our veterans, and, uh, is doing a lot of good for the world on the advocacy front. And, uh, really an exciting episode to talk about a few of these things that are often un untalked about. So, um, with all that said, Don, I appreciate your time and, uh, welcome to the Civic Warrior Show today.
Donald Overton:
Thanks, Brad. Really appreciate the opportunity, uh, to come together with you today.
Brad Caruso:
Awesome. Um, yeah, so, so why don’t we start off, maybe share a little bit about your background and then also how you, uh, arrived at, at, uh, BVA.
Donald Overton:
Uh, sure. I, uh, born and raised up in New England. Uh, I’m a Connecticut native, uh, Fairfield County. Uh, grew up, uh, participating in a lot of sports. Uh, I was a, a swimmer, uh, primarily but played football, lacrosse, uh, baseball, uh, you name it. I tried to be as active as I could as a child, uh, after high school, relocated down into Virginia. Uh, started a small family business in the Virginia area and, and eventually, uh, found myself looking for new opportunities, and that’s what drove me into the military. Uh, joined the United States Army. Uh, went on to, uh, complete my, uh, initial, uh, training in communications. Went to Jump School and ended up stationed with the 82nd Airborne Division, which is really where I stayed for my time in the military. Uh, deployed, uh, to a multiple combat, uh, fronts. First down for Operation Just Cause in Panama.
Donald Overton:
And then, uh, Operation Desert Shield, eventually Desert Storm in, uh, the Middle East. And I was blinded during combat operations, uh, in March of 1990, uh, timeframe. So, um, uh, that led me, uh, to be medically retired from the military after I, uh, went through my different surgical procedures and such at Walter Reed. Uh, and, and eventually, uh, went on, uh, to get my college degrees in, in social work. But I was a policy wonk, uh, did, did my internships, uh, in congressional offices. Eventually worked as a congressional staffer, but then got into the military and veterans advocacy battle space some 30 years ago, and I’ve been here ever since.
Brad Caruso:
What makes one a, uh, as you said, an advocacy wonk <laugh>, what makes one interested in policy?
Donald Overton:
Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s interesting. You know, you, you, you look at the challenges, uh, I think so not just the challenges I think that we all experience today, uh, with the divisiveness of, uh, of our political system, uh, but looking at really how do we improve and better the various, uh, policies, uh, programs and services that are in place. And, and when you look at the complexity and you look at, you know, an agency like the Department of Veterans Affairs, the second largest federal agency, uh, in place, and the myriad, uh, benefit, uh, programs and services that are there, you’re constantly looking to make sure that the benefits are keeping pace with, with what the lived experience is of our stakeholder communities. And so there’s a constant challenge of back and forth. And given, you know, the current, again, divisiveness of the political system, you’re constantly, you know, battling for very limited resources in the appropriations front, but trying to ensure that you’re, you know, creating the best possible opportunity for individuals to transition back, uh, after military service.
Donald Overton:
And so, I’ve always enjoyed it. I, I, I really started off early on, uh, learning the claims system. I had to live that myself in, in transitioning off of active duty. Uh, it was a very broken system. Uh, I’ll never forget, I literally had to move back in with my mother post-military because I was separated. You know, I was medically retired from the military with only a 30% disability rating as a blinded individual from active duty, uh, which was a couple hundred dollars a month is what I had in my pocket, and I had to figure life out. Uh, eventually as I learned, the claim system began to understand how the Department of Veterans Affairs interacts with the Department of Defense. And, and then, you know, everything that you need to do to really understand how complex these benefit systems are, you know, how can we improve that experience? How can we ensure that folks don’t slip through the cracks? I think that that was really the driver for me. So it was my lived experience and then wanting to ensure that other individuals didn’t have to go through some of the similar challenges that I did.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s amazing that, that, you know, continuing to give back and, and continuing to, you know, you’ve, you’ve been obviously through, um, the resources and systems that exist, and now you’ve, you’ve identified mechanisms by which you can improve it. And as, as a potentially a fair statement we can say is the, the world in the policy world doesn’t necessarily move at the same pace as the rest of the world. Or, you know, sometimes it takes a a lot to change, some, some little things, but those little things could go a long way. And, um, improving the livelihood of, uh, many of the individuals you serve.
Donald Overton:
There, there’s no doubt. You’re, you’re, you’re spot on with that. As a matter of fact, just, you know, prior to joining you today, uh, I was reading an article in, in Military Times, we’ve been advocating for legislation similar to what I just discussed. 30 years ago, I experienced this, the Major Richard Star Act that’s out there, which is trying to create policy, allowing individuals who cannot complete 20 years of active military service as a result of military related disabilities. We have to choose an either or. We, we either choose the Department of Defense Benefit Package or the Department of Veterans Affairs based on our disabilities. The Major Richard Star Act would restore, and it would give us access to both lines of benefits to help improve, uh, both the quality, uh, uh, of life and access to additional, uh, healthcare and other types of benefits and resources. So, you know, so 30 years later, we’ve been championing this, and we we’re, we’re still struggling to ever get it across the finish line. So that’s just one example of many.
Brad Caruso:
One of many. Yeah. Um, maybe if you could share for, for the audience as well, for the individuals that you serve, um, you know, what are, what are some of the, the common challenges, um, you know, faced by individuals suffering from blindness, um, you know, and, and other, other, um, ailments coming back from, uh, combat and, and other, uh, deployments and, and what are some of the common misconceptions that you come across? Maybe help, help the audience understand a little bit of, you know, what some of those challenges are. And you’ve already talked about a couple of ’em, obviously, through your lived experiences, but, um, maybe if you could share a little more about that, and then we’ll, we’ll dive into some of the programs that you’re doing to, to help help with some of those challenges.
Donald Overton:
Yeah. I think specifically related to, to blindness, you know, it, it’s, it’s an ever increasing, uh, challenge for, for our military personnel. Uh, as you look at modern warfare and just the nature of the environments and, and, and the austere environments that most deployments, uh, are involved with, you know, it, it, it’s not always just, uh, you know, blasts, which I experience there, there’s so many opportunities for us to damage, um, something that’s as, as delicate and sensitive as, as the human eye. Uh, and sometimes it’s, it’s just being in those environments, right? If you deploy to a, a desert region, you know, just the abrasiveness, uh, of, of sand, uh, in the damage it can do. Uh, so it, it’s a growing, growing problem, uh, for our individuals. It, it’s approximately 7 to 8%, uh, of all combat, uh, related injuries are ocular injuries.
Donald Overton:
And so it’s a huge number. We, Department of Veterans Affairs, our association, Blinded Veterans Association, has, has been a Congressionally Chartered Association. We’re eight, we’re celebrating our 80th anniversary this year. The congressional charter means that we have a direct voice with Congress, but we also have some oversight responsibilities with different agencies, uh, first and foremost being the Department of Veterans Affairs. And, and so we do play a critical role there in our advocacy on behalf of this community. But a couple of years ago, blind rehabilitation service within the department expanded it, its its mission, and it went from serving just blind individuals and, and blindness, legal blindness was defined as, you know, best corrected vision of 2200. Um, and optometrists and opt-ophthalmologists would, would basically measure the visual acuity and/or visual field loss. Um, you know, how, how much, uh, field of vision individuals have.
Donald Overton:
There’s a lot that goes into kind of making those determinations. But the expansion expanded to include low vision because there’s, there’s a huge, huge low vision. And as a result of comorbidity, whether it’s diabetic, uh, uh, diabetes type two diabetes, that so many of our Vietnam, uh, veterans, uh, experience as a result of dioxin agent orange exposures, you know, you, you see this natural progression of diminished visual acuity, uh, across the aging. And so we, we, we see this huge, huge influx with that cohort of individuals. So VA went from serving about 150,000 blind individuals in that service line, uh, to 1.2 million when you take low vision down.
Brad Caruso:
Oh, wow.
Donald Overton:
And so we expanded our mission as well. And, and so, you know, we, we captured this, this much larger, uh, community. And, and I think that lends itself to, uh, the challenges out there. I think, uh, I, I was doing a press conference with members of Congress this week on some legislation we were working on and, and some other challenges. And we were up at the Capitol, and one member of Congress came up to me and put his hands on my shoulders and said, you know, how blind are you? You know, and, and so we get that a lot, <laugh>. And, and that’s the whole thing. Blindness. Blindness is as unique as each of us is unique, right? So we, we go with, uh, along the extremes from total darkness, somebody who’s lost all sight, um, to individuals that, you know, might just be dealing with some blurring of vision or, or have some different, uh, limitations, whether it’s some, some visual field loss that, that might progress over time. Some folks are, are seeing, uh, you know, multiple images. Their brains are not processing the visual signals, uh, properly.
Donald Overton:
And so the sky’s really the limit when you look at it. And so there, there’s so many variables that, that are out there. And I think, you know, probably, uh, some of the misconceptions that are out there are, you know, what are blind people capable of? Pretty much anything. You know, we, we’re, we’re differently abled, right? So we don’t ever look at ourselves necessarily as being disabled, but just differently abled. We go about the world in, in a different, uh, style. Uh, some of the things are extremely antiquated, you know, for those of us that don’t use a, a guide dog, you know, we, we still push around a long white-
Brad Caruso:
mm-Hmm, <affirmative>.
Donald Overton:
-stick, you know, that’s decades and decades and decades. And that’s just to help us to identify, you know, different obstacles and things that for, for safety features. But, you know, there, there’s a lot of new emerging technologies that are gonna help improve, I think, the levels of independence for, for all of us. Um, we’re, we’re involved in most of those, everything from transportation assets to accessing the digital front doors. And, and, and, you know, I think the world has become more and more visual. Um, so there’s definitely challenges there, and that’s where a lot of our advocacy comes in, and in helping to ensure that, you know, the world, uh, takes into consideration and accommodates the needs of, of, of this very, very large, uh, cohort of, of society.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. And certainly a lot of things that I imagine a lot of people don’t necessarily think about, but you just mentioned it there, right? Like a, a as you said, like the, the world is becoming more, more virtual, you know, the, the common buzzword of today is AI and, uh, you know, and a screen as opposed to maybe something more physical or, um, you know, do you, do you feel that the, the world is keeping up with assisting individuals with, um, blindness or, or mostly blindness? Do you, do you feel the world is keeping up with that with technology and advancements? Or do you feel there’s a lot of room for improvement there? Or there are things you’re working on currently that, um, you know, are kind of advocating for and, and, uh, improving, um, you know, access to, or, or, uh, tools that assist, um, um, you know, assist individuals? What do, what do you see on that front?
Donald Overton:
Yeah, it’s some of the biggest challenges for us. So a couple years ago, it, it was really, I think, one of our greatest accomplishments, uh, of recent time. And, and we moved a piece of legislation, uh, it was website accessibility, and we moved it, uh, initially through the Department of Veterans Affairs. And, and we were looking at the, the, the true challenges. We were being left behind, um, blind individuals were not able to access the resources on a level playing field, if at all. Um, as well as in the pandemic really highlighted this breakdown as we move to more and more technology, such as, you know, self kiosk, uh, self, uh, or, or kiosk, self check-in systems, and all of these other types of systems and accessibility wasn’t being taken into consideration. So as we move towards telehealth and these other components, and so individuals out there that were utilizing assistive technology, those technologies weren’t being integrated into these platforms.
Donald Overton:
Uh, the Department of Veterans Affairs invested billions and billions of dollars in a new electronic health record. And, you know, one of the very first things that we identified is it, it lacked accessibility. It was coded wrong to even allow accessible technologies to be able to interact and, and integrate. And that resulted in, in kind of a, a, a stop, uh, with some other challenges that were being experienced there. But the website accessibility, getting that signed into law was the catalyst for the Department of Justice to finally step in. Hmm. You know, we, we had the Americans with Disabilities Act that was, you know, signed into law back in the nineties. We had the Rehabilitation Act back in the seventies. All of these major, major disability policy initiatives attempted to address these concerns, but there was never any teeth. Um, and so there was never any real mandates or, or, or, or any opportunity to begin to sanction or, or, or to put, you know, real effort behind ensuring the accessibility challenges that were there.
Donald Overton:
So this legislation did that with the Department of Veterans Affairs, and then the Department of Justice stepped in, thankfully, uh, we had meetings, uh, with them, and they looked at a whole of government. So they looked at the federal sector first, and, and, and ensuring that all federal agencies began to address the accessibility challenges, whether those were websites, um, apps, kiosks, anything that you can imagine, um, that would allow an individual to be able to access goods or services. And they’ve expanded that just recently. Uh, they expanded that down to state and local governments. So they’re, you’re now seeing a concerted effort at the state and lo local government levels to remediate, uh, websites to, to remediate any of these types, uh, of services. And eventually it’ll go all the way down to the private sector, uh, you know, being sensitive, giving folks time to understand what the requirements are that are put out, how to come into conformance and compliance with these types of regulatory, uh, aspects.
Donald Overton:
And so we’re extremely hopeful, uh, that this continues its positive trend. We’ve seen tremendous, tremendous results coming out of the Department of Veterans Affairs. They, they’ve got a long ways to go, but we’re very sensitive to what this cultural transformation requires. And, and it requires a full lifecycle approach. The, the VA needs to understand that when they go out and put a request for proposal out on the street for any type of technology or, or, or really any, any, uh, resource whatsoever, that accessibility is taken into consideration. Uh, and then that will run the full life cycle, right? From, from deployment all the way through retirement of whatever that system is, ensuring that accessibility is there. And they’re, they’re, they’re beginning to do all the right things, doing things like enterprise licensing to ensure that, you know, if it’s software related, that everybody’s on the same system with the same support and the same opportunity to update and, and, and things along those lines. And that just really helps to drive down the overall cost for all of these types of systems. And it, it just, it’s a common sense approach, but it was lacking for a really long time. So we’re excited for what we’re seeing in those regards.
Brad Caruso:
What is the, the timeframe, so, you know, from something being enacted, if you will, and I might be using incorrect terminology here, but it, you know, let’s say it goes from, you know, enact enacted as a law to actually, like a substantive change in, uh, action. What, what is the, like, the time lag typically, uh, with, with that, you know, call it a, a bill gets approved, or, you know, the action gets taken to actually substantive implementation. What, what type of timeframe is that?
Donald Overton:
It, it, it, it’s, it’s, it’s a long process. <laugh>, I’m not gonna, yeah. There’s, there’s no doubt about it. For us, with the website accessibility, you know, there was, there was a requirement and, and we were, we were good when we worked with our champions in Congress to ensure that we did have some, um, definitive timelines in place. And so VA was required to produce a report in the first year, right? And, and, and then to go forward, legislation is all unique. When you look at it, there’s, there’s, you know, once you get something signed into law, then you have to begin to look at the regulatory process, and the federal agencies have to begin to look at what the regs are, and that gets opened up for public comment. And then you end up with directives. And so it can be years and years and years of the back and forth process and trying to get everything in place to ensure that what the intent of Congress was actually is enacted. And we don’t always get it right. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of times that, you know, everybody’s best intentions just miss the mark. And we’re, we, we see that all the time with legislation, and then Congress has to come back and, and basically, you know, start over again, start the policy process over again with, with new legislation that then goes through this, uh, entire process all over again.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah, there definitely is, uh, you know, it’s, it’s part of the battle is the advocacy work. Part of the battle is the law passing, and then part of the battle is the implementation and all of those things, as it sounds, take time to do, and as as understandable, you know, we are, you know, there are some structural changes and some significant changes in, you know, policy as well as operation that, that are being introduced. So, um, but yeah, I can imagine that that’s not a, uh, not a short process, therefore it’s, you know, even more, you know, point being more imperative, the work you’re doing and how you’re doing it. Um, you know, certainly time is of the essence sometimes because, you know, although we’re doing things currently, it takes a long time for them to actually, um, you know, hit the public and hit the individuals that are actually receiving the benefit of, of that action.
Donald Overton:
There, There’s no doubt ev- even just building off of this, right? We look at website accessibility. We got that signed into law and the prior administration, right? So the Trump administration signed that legislation into law. The Biden administration came in. You had a whole transition of leadership at the federal levels that always stalls all of these processes. Uh, it takes time to get folks up and operational. And, and we looked at those, but we knew that there were gonna be continued challenges, and we were sensitive to that. And so we, we worked through the legislative channels, not just to get the initial legislation signed into law, but we looked at wanting to ensure that the agency had what it needed to be able to implement. And so one of the things that we, we went to MilCon VA, the military construction and Department of Veterans Affairs Appropriations Committees, and we got language included in MilCon VA appropriations, uh, looking for a chief accessibility officer, somebody that would be accountable at the agency to oversee implementation and to begin to break down.
Donald Overton:
When you look at these federal agencies, they’re so siloed, and, and it’s just, it’s, it’s a natural situation just given the size of these agencies, right? That, you know, everybody is working on their unique missions. And, and oftentimes not everybody understands how to be complimentary to what other people are working on. And so we wanted to try to equip the va, and the VA was resistant, uh, to it. Uh, the secretary actually proclaimed I am the Chief accessibility Officer. And so we spent, you know, several years going back and forth congressionally with pointing out that, you know, with all due respect, sir, you know, you’re failing. You, you know, you have a lot on your plate as the secretary of such a large agency. So we’re moving now and, and, you know, here we are multiple years later, but we just cleared the house this week, and we’re going over to the Senate with really what our flagship legislation is right now to help ensure that this, the original legislation continues to advance.
Donald Overton:
And that’s standing up a Veteran’s Accessibility advisory committee. And so that would allow stakeholders, disabled, veterans, subject matter experts to actually come together, uh, formally. And the secretary then has to meet with that advisory committee. It can help do a lot of the initial work for the secretary, um, but give the secretary, you know, really what they need, uh, to be able to be successful in implementation, and to not be called, uh, before Congress repeatedly for hearings and, and, and things to, to look at the status. And so we cleared the house. Unfortunately, the VA is gonna resist our efforts and the Senate, um, you know, they’re, they, they, they don’t like the accountability factors in the other areas. So we, we’ll be working hard over the next week or so, uh, to help, uh, motivate our, our, our senators, uh, to ensure that, you know, we get this legislation over the finish line as well. And, and we’re, we’re relatively confident. We, we’ve got good, good bipartisan, uh, bial support on this, as well as a lot of energy in the military and veteran service organization space to get this committee established. And, and again, we, we look at this as being an asset to the va. Um, so we’ll see. We’ll see how we make out on that. And, and hopefully this will be the driver to ensure that the va, uh, continues its current streak of being successful in implementation of the original legislation.
Brad Caruso:
See, I mean, you’ve talked about this a lot in, in, um, you know, kind of discussing the, you know, legislate legislative work you’re doing. Um, and, and it seems like, you know, just outside looking in, um, not having a, a, a ton of direct involvement, but, um, you know, it in totality, it seems like you’ve been successful with your efforts and your advocacy work that you are doing. Um, you know, what, what are some of the keys to success there for other organizations that are, you know, maybe not in the same issue, but, but you know, different global issues that exist. Um, you know, what are some of the, the keys to success that you have employed that you feel, um, aid in successful advocacy work when it comes to taking an idea, um, a change that you want to make to bringing it to the point of fruition, you know, implementation down at the, the other end of the spectrum, you know, what are, what are some of those strengths that you’ve employed that have, that have been helpful in, in making that happen or, and being successful in the process?
Donald Overton:
Patience. Patience, <laugh>
Brad Caruso:
Patience. We all need that.
Donald Overton:
Patience. Patience. Yeah. A lot of patients. Yeah. And again, I, I, I think one of the greatest challenges right now is just how divisive our, our political systems are. And, and so there are challenges and there are so many competing interests, and so it’s really, you know, taking time. Uh, I think for us, one of the things that we do is, is we, we, we make sure that we identify what the specific need is, and we really do everything in our power to define that need, to be able to show that there’s definitely a large group of individuals, right, that are going to somehow benefit from it. And by the same token, I mean, that’s the way our political system works, right? It’s, it’s gotta be beneficial, both, you know, to the consumer, whether that’s on the goods and services side, but it’s also gotta be beneficial to the member of Congress.
Donald Overton:
So that’s what you going to wanna do it there, it takes a lot of strategic planning and looking at who are the champions going to be, right? So for us, it, it’s always important that we’re, we’re, we’re looking at how to bring a bipartisan coalition together, because if you can get both, uh, sides of the aisle to champion a piece of legislation and being able to build the co-sponsors and getting more and more people, uh, at the congressional level, uh, involved, and, and then it’s the education and the awareness, um, you know, making sure that you’re also engaging with whatever agency is gonna be responsible for implementation, uh, understanding what their challenges are, right? So it, going to congress to get legislation passed is one thing, but if you, if you hamstring an agency or you put them in a position where it creates so many additional challenges, it’s gonna, it’s gonna stall there, it’s gonna create a lot of other chaos.
Donald Overton:
And you, you, you don’t wanna cause harm either. So you always wanna try to be as complimentary as you possibly can be. But like we, we were just talking about, you know, sometimes unfortunately, you know, you have to speak truth to power. And, and so sometimes it means, you know, standing up and taking that stand and saying, with all due respect, you know, this needs to be done and this is why. And that’s often when you’ll see us, you know, go to the media and, and try to pull those additional, uh, resources of, of really pulling at the heartstrings that of individuals and, and showing specifically what the impact of not doing something is to individuals. And so it, it, it’s really, it’s such a multifaceted, it all depends, you know, there, there’s some legislation you can go up and it just, it makes sense and, and it benefits everybody involved there.
Donald Overton:
There’s, there’s other times when, you know, you’ve got adversarial approaches and the competing interest, right? The hardest thing today for anybody, especially if you’re trying to move something at the federal sector, is that everything gets scored. Um, there’s a scorecard with the congressional budget office, right? It’s got you, you’ve gotta have the money to pay for whatever it is that you’re attempting to do. And so it, it, today that means that something has to be given up for something to take its place. And so you wanna make sure that you’re not causing harm. You know, we talked about the advisory committee, you know, we’re sensitive to the fact that what you don’t wanna do is create a million advisory committees. So there’s several advisory committees that are still on the books at the Department of Veterans Affairs, but for all intents and purposes, they’re, they’re defunct.
Donald Overton:
So we, we, we intentionally put in that we would replace a defunct advisory committee. We’re not trying to expand this and, and, and continue to expand it. We’re being sensitive to the fact that we’re not trying to grow government or grow any of these other programs. But what we’re trying to do is perhaps replace an antiquated, uh, system that’s there that’s no longer useful was something that needs to be done today. And so it, it’s really understanding, you know, the full life cycle of the legislation, what the impact of the legislation’s going to be, you know, making sure that you can do the storytelling around that to show that it is gonna have significant benefit. And then the members of Congress are obviously looking for opportunities, uh, to appeal to their voter bases. And so they want accomplishments. They need to have accomplishments. And so identifying the right, uh, individuals that can, you know, sponsor and or co-sponsor legislation is critically important as well.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. Without a doubt. Those are all very, uh, I appreciate you sharing that, that clarity and, and additional information. It’s definitely helpful to understand it. Uh, I know from my perspective, I haven’t really been in the advocacy world too much. So it, it certainly, uh, you know, gives, gives a little more clarity and a lot of, you know, listeners, um, you know, and know individuals supporting you, you know, there, there’s a significant amount of hard work, uh, relationship building trust, um, you know, political correctness with how you say things, um, collaboration and, and, you know, first foremost, and lastly, uh, patience, as you mentioned. So, you know, certainly appreciate those, those thoughts. It definitely helps, uh, you know, those that are kind of embarking on something similar to understand, you know, what, what’s involved.
Donald Overton:
Yeah. And thick skin, you know, there, there’s, there’s a lot of times where, you know, we, everybody puts together every year, those of us set up that do have a congressional charter. We, we do annual testimony once a year, and so we’re sensitive. You, you, you need to monitor, you know, what’s happening around us in this battle space, right? So what are the other military and veteran service organizations focused on? What, what can we collaborate on? Right? One of the biggest accomplishments for all of us recently was the PACT Act, which was honoring, you know, those individuals, uh, that, that have different environmental exposures. Military service, uh, creates all kinds of exposures. Jus- not just combat related exposures, right? But just, just working on different types of machinery. You know, if we go back again, uh, to our, our, our Vietnam era, pre Vietnam era, our pre-Vietnam era, you know, most of the ships and the submarines, right?
Donald Overton:
We’re dealing with a lot of toxic substances. And, and so, you know, people had all these exposures. You look at the Camp Lejeune and the Camp Lejeune, you know, water situation. And, and so there’s all of these things that are out there. But the PACT Act was successful because it was, again, bipartisan, bicameral at the congressional level. VA supported the expansion of, of, of eligibility for individuals. But the entire military and veteran and, uh, service organization communities came together collaboratively to push that. And we all pretty much agreed to move the rest of our, you know, our, our annual legislative priorities down to ensure we could get that over the finish line as we looked at things like that, congressional budget, office scoring, and those other components to be sensitive to all of that. So there’s a lot of negotiations that go on, different advocacy groups coming together, you know, and, and, and you will, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll stand down sometimes some of your priorities and your initiatives being sensitive to, you know, these other, uh, uh, areas and, and opportunities would benefit a, a, a larger number, uh, of individuals. And being sensitive to all of that, I think is extremely helpful. And then, you know, when the time is right and you have a piece of legislation and you can really and truly, uh, stand there and present that case, then you’ll have the support of your sister associations coming together to support you championing that, and then you build the momentum and get the wind at your back to help push, you know, your legislation over the finish line as well.
Brad Caruso:
Got it. Yeah. And then deal with everything along the way. <laugh>,
Donald Overton:
There you go. Exactly. Yeah.
Brad Caruso:
Deal with it as it comes.
Donald Overton:
It’s definitely, yeah. It, it’s, it’s an interesting, you know, it, it, it, it’s, it’s definitely a fascinating process to, to be a part of.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. No, without a doubt. Yeah. Um, switching gears a little bit, um, just thinking about, uh, a couple questions I always receive, or a couple things that I, you know, always wanna make sure that, you know, if we can educate the public on, um, and just, just talking about the constituencies you serve. You know, if you encounter someone, let’s say, you know, blind in your travels and walking down the street at a bus stop, you know, wherever you may be, uh, you know, what’s the most respectful way to approach them, to help them to, you know, obviously we wanna treat everyone, uh, with respect, but, you know, from your perspective, what do you think is a, a helpful, uh, helpful thing people can do? Or, or, you know, how would you approach somebody and, uh, you know, do it, do it in the right way?
Donald Overton:
It, it does, Brad, it’s a great question, and thank you for asking it, because all too often, I think what we find, and, and so I’ll use myself as an example, but we all in our community talk about it, you know, when we go down a street. And, and, and for me, whether it was when I, when I did have a guide dog, although my guide dog drew a lot of attention, and people wanted to interact with me much more when I had the guide dog, when I had the white cane, it’s like the parting of the Red Sea, everybody just out of, and, and, you know, they’re being respectful, but, but there’s an avoidance. And, and I think it’s a fear of, of not knowing how to interact, right? And, and, and not knowing what the right thing to do, what, what I find to be, you know, the best approach.
Donald Overton:
And, and I’m very fortunate, our, our national headquarters is in Old Town Alexandria, just outside of Washington, DC and it’s a great community, uh, a lot of, you know, uh, uh, history, but the old, you know, brick sidewalks and things still, and there’s a lot of pedestrian and foot traffic and everything out there. And not a day goes by. I, I, I take a light rail in from my home into the office, and, uh, I’ll, I’ll walk from there over to the office, and, you know, there, there’s several major, major intersections that I need to cross, and I use different devices, uh, that help me. But the, the greatest thing is when somebody comes up and just says, can I, can I be of any assistance that, that that’s all it takes! Is there anything I can do to help you? You know, can I be of assistance?
Donald Overton:
And 90 plus percent of the time, I’ll say, you know, thank you very much for the offer. I’m okay. And, you know, then we might get into a conversation from there, but that’s really what it’s all about. Is there anything I can do to assist you? Can I, can I help you in any way? Um, is a great way to, to open that opportunity. And, and, you know, sometimes there are, you know, sometimes there’s challenges with locating, you know, uh, a, a a a a storefront or, you know, some crossing signals could be blocked by branches, and then you’re listening to traffic and things. So there are times and opportunities, uh, to help a assist and support somebody. And so it, it’s as simple as that, and it goes a really long way. And it, it helps us, uh, feel part of the community and, and, and realize that, you know, society is still good, right?
Brad Caruso:
Without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I definitely believe what, um, you know, the most common reason why individuals would, as you said, you know, part away or not not get involved, is the, there’s the uncertainty. They, you know, in today’s day and age, people don’t wanna offend anybody. And everyone’s like, well, it’s, you know, it’s easier for me to walk the other way, but actually it’s easier if you say, Hey, can I, can I help you? And it goes across a lot of different verticals, um, asking someone if you can help them, and, you know, as you said, you might say, uh, no, thanks, I’m good. You know, but, but it doesn’t sound like you’re offended by someone asking you if they can help you. And I think some people’s fear may be that, that, that question itself, they may, you know, they don’t wanna impose or they don’t wanna say, Hey, you can’t do something.
Brad Caruso:
Um, but at the end of the day, I appreciate, you know, you, you’ve mentioned it, and I appreciate, you know, for the audience listening. Yeah. I mean, one way that you can very easily help people is just, can I, can I help you? Can I be of assistance? And someone may say, no, no, thank you. And that’s fine. Uh, or someone may say, absolutely, can you help me cross the street? Can you help me get to this location? Can you, um, you know, buy my next house? You know, throw a couple jokes in there, <laugh>, see how they react to it.
Donald Overton:
Exactly. Put my child to college.
Brad Caruso:
Can you put my child college? No. Okay, then I’m good for today,
Donald Overton:
<laugh>. I’m good. But no, and I, and I say it all the time, and, and, and, and I shared it before, you know, I, I’m the very first person, you know, having been fully sighted, uh, prior to, you know, my, my combat, uh, trauma. It, it, it, I didn’t know any better. And I, you know, I can remember growing up and seeing somebody coming down the street and, and I tell people all the time, I, if I was on the other side and I’m, I’m coming at me swinging this white stick, I’m getting outta the way too. I, you know, hey, looking out and the other components. But again, there’s, there’s really some great new emerging technologies from different types of navigation. I had a great experience. We recently were out in Arizona, uh, for an event, and I don’t know if you have familiarity, but there’s more and more autonomous vehicles,
Brad Caruso:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,
Donald Overton:
uh, beginning to, uh, team with the ride shares. And, and one of our, uh, groups that we work extensively with is Waymo and Waymo’s Autonomous Vehicles. It’s the first time for me in 30 plus years that I got into a vehicle by myself. I controlled the music, I controlled the climate. I was able to control everything, and I was by myself going where I wanted to go, when I wanted to go there. Autonomous vehicles are amazing for the blind community, and, and that’s gonna open up tremendous opportunities. Those markets are continually expanding. They’re in major, major cities now, and they’re continuing those expansions and, and the safety aspects speak for themselves about how safe this technology has become and, and all the components that are in there. But I can’t even begin to imagine what the day’s going to be like when there’s an autonomous vehicle in my driveway, and when I want to commute to work, I just go out there and I program the, the vehicle and it takes me to where I want to go, or if I wanna go shopping, you know, that, that’s gonna be huge.
Brad Caruso:
Close. It’s very, it’s very close.
Donald Overton:
It’s close. It’s very close.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. It’s very close to happening. I, I imagine it’s, I imagine it’s there just not publicly. I imagine they’re probably just, you know, there’s safety testing and everything else that, uh, prevents it from hitting the public before it, uh, you know, before, before anything.
Donald Overton:
Yeah, that’s exactly where it is, Brad. You know, they’re, they’re, they’re there now as they’re, as they’re partnering and, and beginning, you know, to saturate more and more of these markets and, and get more people comfortable, right? That’s, that’s the biggest thing, is just getting all of us comfortable. And look, we have the technology in our car. You know, my, my wife, you know, is able to, on the highway, you know, the car is literally driving itself. It’s braking, it’s identifying everything around itself. And so we continue to see more and more of an emergence of, of this tech and, and additional technology. It for, for this community. Meta, um, has just released some phenomenal new, uh, glasses by RayBan. They’re off the shelf for a couple hundred dollars with all of the embedded AI. And for me, this is great. It’s in, it’s in this very attractive RayBan frame.
Donald Overton:
You know, the lenses are phenomenal. And, and I can literally now go out to a restaurant, I’m wearing a pair of glasses that have transition lenses. So nobody can tell the difference. They look really, really smart. But these are all powerful, powerful, you know, in, in two seconds, I can iden-identify the entire environment around me. It can lay out everything that’s on the table. It can read the menu to me in my ear. Nobody knows anything that’s going on, but I now have a full level of independence in that I can go out and enjoy a meal with friends or family, and not be dependent on somebody else to tell me the menu or to tell me where food is on my plate or, or any of those other aspects or where my drink is. And they’re continuing to evolve, uh, with this technology with more and more types of navigation and mapping and identification. Some of the biggest challenges are just privacy right now. Um, and, and, and those, I’m sure they’ll be able to overcome in time, but you know, this, this is technology that was thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, you know, a year ago. And it was very cost prohibitive for, for so many individuals. And now for a couple hundred dollars, you’re getting it off the shelf, and it continues to evolve and emerge. So yeah, the, the future’s bright for the blind and, and, and low vision communities for sure.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. Technology advancements definitely have become affordable, accessible, and, and definitely have, you know, as you said, I think it’s incredible the, the impact that it has. Um, you know, the public often concentrates on the negative, and you don’t hear any of this talked about, but it’s like, well, actually, one of the positives of autonomous vehicles, one of the positives of all this voice recognition technology, one of the positives of some of the, the advancements in, uh, in these technologies is, is it does, it does help, helps individuals with blindness. And I’m sure there’s other disabilities that it, it, it assists people with. So it’s certainly is, um, you certainly, it’s important. I appreciate you sharing it. Um, I think it’s helpful for those out there to hear it.
Donald Overton:
Yeah. De- definitely leveling the playing field and ensuring, you know, the equal opportunities, uh, again, for, and you’re, you’re a hundred percent correct, whether it’s, it’s individuals that are dealing with hearing loss, cognitive, uh, types of disabilities. Everybody’s utilizing this technology and it’s improving and enhancing quality of life for
Brad Caruso:
All. Yeah. So, so, um, kind of la- last question here. It’s something that, um, I, I have my, uh, my wife’s brother, my brother-in-Law. He, um, he’s mostly blind. Um, he, you know, at birth. And, um, you know, he’s, uh, done wonders for himself. He’s on the fire company with me, um, or I joined after him, so he, I’m on the fire company with him. Um, and, you know, one of, one of the things we find out there is that there’s not always a, a significant number of accessible jobs, if you will, for individuals experiencing blindness. Um, do you have any advice on that front and, you know, does your organization also assist with, um, employment assistance or, or do you have any, uh, opinion there or any, uh, guidance there?
Donald Overton:
Yeah, so, you know, first and foremost, just being cognizant of the fact that neurosurgery probably isn’t a good option for those of us dealing with blindness, right? We we’re just never gonna get into those types of fields. So there’s always gonna be, uh, some challenges for us, uh, out there and where we are. But there, there, there’s, there’s tremendous opportunity. And again, I’ll go back to what I stated earlier and, and, and it is gonna take additional time for, for awareness, uh, that’s out there of, of just how able, so we use that differently abled, uh, rather than disabled, uh, component. There’s, there’s very little that we’re not capable of doing. Um, there’s so many systems that are in place, and we’re seeing modernization, right? So one of our, um, uh, programs that’s out there is, is AbilityOne Programs, right? And AbilityOne was always kind of structured workshops for persons with disabilities, um, at all different levels, but it really, uh, did have a large, large, uh, population of blind individuals.
Donald Overton:
But most of this was manufacturing. You know, it was menial, you know, to go in and, and, and, you know, assemble widgets, right? How many widgets can you do in a day and, and blah, blah, blah. And, and then it was, you know, the salaries were supplemented by the federal government, and, and that’s where the programs were. But those programs are all modernizing now, right? They’re getting into more and more of the tech sector and the tech space. And so whether that’s CRM, uh, different types of database systems and, and building and designing, we’re, we’re more and more, uh, into the coding and, and, and the IT sides of things. Cybersecurity, I mean, you, you name it, we see individuals. I mean, we, we have blind individuals that are at NASA, you know, in, in the command, uh, centers that are overseeing missions, you know, so really the sky is the limit at that point in time.
Donald Overton:
We, we, you know, I didn’t get to experience it, but the, the individuals that came after me in the military, you know, some of the folks that I serve alongside of at Blinded Veterans Association completed full 20 year careers in the military blind. You know, we, we have individuals that are special forces qualified, totally blind, but still serving in leadership positions. And again, they’re doing it differently, right? We’re not expecting them to, to, to deploy with small arms in, in, in, into a combat, uh, zone. But we, we’ve had deployments with individuals that, that were blind and low vision. And so, uh, again, you know, it’s adjusting those skill sets. It’s being sensitive to where our, our limitations are understanding some of the safety concerns. But there, there’s really, you know, nothing that we can’t do. And it’s one of the things that we are so encouraged by.
Donald Overton:
One of our more recent programs, we stood up, uh, during the pandemic was what we call our Ambassador Program. And it was taking blind individuals and training them to, in partnership with the Department of Veterans Affairs, go into their, uh, community development and civic engagement, their VA voluntary service programs, but force multipliers for our visual impairment service team coordinators, helping them with case management and those other components. And so we’ve just seen individuals from their nineties, you know, down into their twenties, that, that are all engaged in these programs, and, and, and they’re using that as a catalyst to then go back to school and to begin studying and looking for careers in everything, you know, from social work to, to, to different, um, types of trades and such. And so, yeah, it’s all there. Wherever somebody’s passion is, you know, we encourage them, uh, to, to explore the opportunities and then adapt the environment. That’s the whole thing, right? We adapt to whatever the needs are, and whether that’s through assistive technologies or, or other deployments. And so, I, I just think, you know, there’s nothing that we can’t do.
Brad Caruso:
Love it. I love that message, and it’s definitely an important one to continue to relay. And, um, yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. Appreciate that very much. Um, yeah. So, so ultimately, um, I’ve been gleaning a lot of information from you, so ultimately I’ll ask it, uh, you know, the reverse way is how can the public, uh, support Blind Veterans Association and your mission, how can the public help support the, the hard work and the accomplishments that you’ve had and continue to have, um, how can they help support you?
Donald Overton:
Yeah, and thanks for asking that. Obviously, as a 501c3 and a Congressional Charter Veteran Service organization, we can’t scale up our production of widgets because we don’t produce widgets. And so we, we are totally dependent on, on society to help fund us. And so donations are, are always the biggest driver. That’s what, you know, both funds our operations as well as our, our, our programs and services. We, we, we fund everything from helping blind individuals, um, scale, uh, the tallest mountains in the world. We have blind, uh, members that recently scaled Everest, um, to, to getting out there and just learning, you know, what they are capable of. And, and, and whether that is, you know, uh, climbing mountains or, or, or getting back out and, and, and kayaking, surfing, sailing, playing golf, um, or, or any other, the assistive sports. Those are all part of the things that we fund through our programs and services, our ambassador training programs, uh, our care review, we go out and we make sure that the, uh, 13, uh, residential blind rehabilitation centers, uh, operated by the Department of Veterans Affairs are, are operating, you know, properly.
Donald Overton:
We have oversight as part of our congressional charter of those centers in some of the other areas. Um, vet tech, uh, we’re doing a lot, uh, around the technology side with, with, uh, different companies that are out there with these emerging technologies and helping to educate our, our membership on, on how to utilize this technology to enhance their, uh, quality of life and, and their ability to integrate back into society. So that’s what it drives down to. Um, we, we encourage folks, we’re, we’re doing an overhaul right now, modernizing our website, but it’s very easy. It’s bva.org, bravo, victor, alpha dot, Oscar, Romeo golf, uh, it’s that simple. bva.org. Um, take a look at at, at what we have there now, um, there, there’s donation opportunities. Uh, feel free to reach out to us for additional information. We’re happy, uh, to engage and answer any questions that, that folks might have.
Donald Overton:
But the thing that we always try to let folks know, Brad, is that giving is, is, is so multifaceted, right? It, there, there’s opportunities to, to, uh, you know, do everything from, you know, planned giving, looking, uh, at, at, at, you know, wills and estates, uh, corporate giving, uh, corporate fundraising, uh, organizing community events and, and helping identify, uh, charities and groups that can benefit from some of those different types of activities. So, in–kind, you know, there, there’s companies out there that have services that an organizations such as ours need, and, and if they are able to donate some of those services, we, we’ve got some great, uh, partnerships with, with entities out there that, you know, might provide printing, uh, services or, or IT support. And so the, the, the sky’s always the limit and everything is welcome. And, and, and we welcome the opportunity, uh, to again, help to educate, help to inform, but also, uh, be able to support, uh, sometimes, you know, uh, companies, uh, or, or, or communities are looking for individuals to come out and share messages. Uh, we’re happy to get, uh, the right individuals out there to help support those initiatives and, and those efforts as well. So it’s a two-way street, uh, we give and, and, and get, and we welcome the opportunity to explore anything with anybody that’s out there. But thank you for asking that, uh, allowing us the opportunity to share that.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah, without a doubt, no, certainly. Uh, you know, one of the goals here is to help, uh, raise awareness to the organization, raise awareness to the cause you serve, as well as raise awareness to ways that, uh, people that may be interested in the cause or may be interested in supporting it, um, can. And so, you know, as you mentioned, you know, visit your website, bva.org and, uh, which is good. I like, I like short, uh, short web addresses. It’s easy to say and easy to remember. So, um, certainly that’s, uh, that’s important. But definitely check it out. There’s a lot of great information, um, on the website itself. More information about programmatic activity, more information about how to donate more information about the cause, um, out there. So, so certainly a lot of great information. Um, but yeah, really, uh, really appreciate, uh, really appreciate your time today, Don.
Brad Caruso:
And, uh, you know, first and foremost, and I didn’t say this in the front end, but, um, thank you for your service to our country, both, uh, your active duty service, as well as your continued service to, uh, to many out there. So, you know, thank you so much for that. And thank you so much for your time and just sharing your wisdom. Obviously you have a significant amount of experience and, uh, are doing great things for the world and doing great things for the individuals that, uh, that you serve. So really appreciate your time today and really appreciate, uh, what you’re doing for the world.
Donald Overton:
Uh, Brad, thank you so much. It was great to come together with you. We appreciate, uh, you as well. I appreciate, uh, having this platform and forum, uh, to share the messaging. So keep up the great work on your end as well. Thank you for this opportunity and we’ll look forward to, uh, future collaborations hopefully, and opportunities to come together
Brad Caruso:
Again. Love it. It and Warriors, thank you for listening. Uh, subscribe and meet us right back here for another episode of Rhythm Them Civic Warriors. Bye everybody.
